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spearcrow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
 Posted: Mar 11, 2010 - 05:07 AM
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Adept
Joined: Jul 27, 2009 - 14:36 PM
Posts: 189
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| Haha, that is an interesting observation...I, for some reason, always thought tomlin was a woman...I have no idea why, but I never once even had the thought could be a guy. Perhaps something in the writing style or tone...weird, but I guess it's always good to know, for sure, more about the people we converse with one here. |
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jrtomlin
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 11, 2010 - 20:29 PM
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Adept
Joined: Mar 30, 2009 - 05:16 AM
Posts: 132
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A lot of women read SoIaF. 
As for that (very romantic) betrothal, let remind you of what it is called when something (or someone) is given away for gold. It is called being SOLD.
As far as how much "civility" women were treated with in Westros, what do YOU call it when you are handed to a man you have never seen before, told he is your husband and has the right to have sex with you whenever he likes?
I call it rape.
Some women were "civilly" treated by their rapists. Others were beaten and even further abused. I suggest looking for a reference to The Mountain's wife. They had no right to protest one way or the other.
I'll take the right to be a spear maiden if I choose (which didn't appear to be unusual so you might want to re-think the "a woman can never fight off a rapist" theory) and at least have the right to TRY to fight my rapist off as opposed to not even having the right to defend myself as was the case with ALL of the women of Westeros.
Edit: The Martells would be a distant second but I thought they did a pretty good job of kissing arse to the Targaryens so I didn't like them that much. |
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J. R. Tomlin
http://www.jeannetomlin.com
Warrior's Duty
Available on Amazon.com
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spearcrow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 11, 2010 - 21:26 PM
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Adept
Joined: Jul 27, 2009 - 14:36 PM
Posts: 189
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Well, one obviously big thing to remember is that we are looking at everything from our societies perspective.
Not all of the women in Westeros felt as if they were sold to someone. There are good men just like there are bad. Even if love is not already there, just like it Ed and Cat Starks case, you can come to love someone...and in the meantime it doesn't hurt to be in a respecable position.
Be a shield maiden if you wish, but you will be submitting yourself to a land of savages, with little rule, less civility, and no compassion.
Also, you said, "as opposed to not even having the right to defend myself as was the case with ALL of the women of Westeros."
First of all....hello....the maid of Tarth....Brienne
Secondly, Catelyn stark fought off an assasin trying to kill her son, King Robert might have mistreated his lovely wife...but she sorta killed him...There is a woman leading the armies of Bear Isle ,the mormount (spelling) lady, Jojen Reed's sister kicks butt...any woman can defend themselves, they don't have to be in a certain part of the wall...and these women all have done so.
Perhaps the difference is that the majority of women in Westeos let themselves be taken advantage of. While those in the north have a sense of what they are worth. At any rate it is impossible to say that every woman in the north kills men who try to get to them, and none in westeros do...you just can't through out a net like that. |
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jrtomlin
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 12, 2010 - 06:53 AM
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Adept
Joined: Mar 30, 2009 - 05:16 AM
Posts: 132
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So all of the northerners are nothing but dirty savages? Did that include the woman that Jon loved? Just wondering. No one there had compassion? Did you read the same books I did? No one there loved each other? They had no music? No joy? I suggest re-reading that part with a more open and less anglo-centric mindset.
Hello... YES. The Maid of Tarth who HAD her father decided to marry her off to someone, could NOT have done anything about it. Had she tried to defend herself, it would have been murder.
A woman had no right to defend herself against her husband.
So Cat fought off someone trying to kill her son. She still didn't have the right to turn down any man her father chose to give her to or to defend herself against anything he might choose to do to her. The first one dies she gets thrown to his brother--who she's never even met. If you consider spending your life as someone's property "civility", I don't.
No point in discussing this further though. I'd take the north and those dirty savages any day of the week over being chattel, something you obviously don't understand and that's all right too. |
_________________
J. R. Tomlin
http://www.jeannetomlin.com
Warrior's Duty
Available on Amazon.com
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spearcrow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 12, 2010 - 16:24 PM
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Adept
Joined: Jul 27, 2009 - 14:36 PM
Posts: 189
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I changed my mind and deleted my post.
I simply have absolutely no desire to argue semantics on this cause. Feminism holds no place in Martin's work for me, as it obviously does for you.
I won't be commenting further with you in this thread, and I apologize to Ireland for getting so incredibly off topic. This is still a good idea for a thread and I'm glad you came up with it. |
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irelandsman
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 16, 2010 - 00:06 AM
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Adept
Joined: Oct 01, 2009 - 15:32 PM
Posts: 186
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| I love this its great no apologies necassary debatings part of it. I mean No one ever mentioned how well off Danaerys is becoming. |
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Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.
Roll Tide!!!
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spearcrow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 16, 2010 - 03:39 AM
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Adept
Joined: Jul 27, 2009 - 14:36 PM
Posts: 189
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Oh ya, Dany is kicking butt and taking names... although I find her part in the books the wierdest, and hardest to read. I guess she is just so far removed from what is going on in the west, I get aggravated when I have to zoom off to see what she is doing next.
I am, however, very excited to see who the three heads of her dragon will be. I think it would be cool if it ended up somehow including a certain young stark girl, currently being trained as an assasin, or so I think... I don't know how they would be connected, I just think it'd be cool.
I wonder if she is going to stay where she is at until her dragons are grown up a bit...that would be boring, surely not..
sorry off topic yet again...  |
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irelandsman
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 16:57 PM
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Adept
Joined: Oct 01, 2009 - 15:32 PM
Posts: 186
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| Nah I think shes going to keep moving and conquering and maybe well get to see a head of the dragon in the next book. Arya now that would be interesting I agree. Wierd haha definitely like when she gave birth I ws like WTF! That just disturbed me. |
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spearcrow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 02:18 AM
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Adept
Joined: Jul 27, 2009 - 14:36 PM
Posts: 189
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| Oh ya, I'm not sure disturbing would even be the word to describe what I was thinking at the time she was giving birth..wow.. |
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irelandsman
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 25, 2010 - 23:47 PM
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Adept
Joined: Oct 01, 2009 - 15:32 PM
Posts: 186
Status: Offline
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| okay the proper terminology would have f@#*ed up! |
_________________
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.
Roll Tide!!!
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spearcrow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What family would you be in?
Posted: Mar 26, 2010 - 12:29 PM
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Adept
Joined: Jul 27, 2009 - 14:36 PM
Posts: 189
Status: Offline
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| ha, ya that was about it! |
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